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Stop it!!!!!!
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fgrieu
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My reading is that one can't exhibit the counter example asked for the definition of universal hash function in comment, when that's read as stating that $H_{k_1}$$H_{k_1}: m\to H(k_1,m)$ is collision-resistant for fixed $k_1$, including random and public.

That follows from the following proposition, and the remark that turning $k_1$ from public to secret can't harm security.

Proposition: Applying a secure PRF $F_{k_2}$$F_{k_2}: h\mapsto F(k_2,h)$ with random secret constant $k_2$ to the output of a public collision-resistant function $H$ yields a secure MAC (only at worst slightly less secure than the weakest of $F$ and $H$).

That proposition holds because distinguishing $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, for random secret $k_2$ and chosen distinct messages $m_i$, requires breaking the indistinguishability of $F_{k_2}$ or the collision-resistance of the public function $H$. Proof sketch of that: for hypothetical distinct messages $m_i$ allowing to distinguish $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, if there is a collision among the $h_i=H(m_i)$, that exhibits a pair of $h_i$ breaking the collision-resistance of $H$; otherwise, we can distinguish the $F(h_i)$ from random for chosen distinct $h_i$ that we can exhibit from the hypothetized $m_i$ (since $H$ is public), thus breaking the indistinguishability of $F$.


As apparent from the many revisions and convoluted argument surrounding $k_1$, I'm struggling quite a bit on that one, especially when I use the more formal definition of (not-necessarilly-strongly) universal hash function: $H:\mathcal K\times\mathcal M\to\mathcal T$ is a family of universal hash functions when $$\forall(m,m')\in\mathcal M^2,\quad m\ne m'\implies\mathsf{Pr}_{k\in\mathcal K}\Big[H(k,m)=H(k,m')\Big]=\frac1{|\mathcal T|}$$

My reading is that one can't exhibit the counter example asked for the definition of universal hash function in comment, when that's read as stating that $H_{k_1}$ is collision-resistant for fixed $k_1$, including random and public.

That follows from the following proposition, and the remark that turning $k_1$ from public to secret can't harm security.

Proposition: Applying a secure PRF $F_{k_2}$ with random secret constant $k_2$ to the output of a public collision-resistant function $H$ yields a secure MAC (only at worst slightly less secure than the weakest of $F$ and $H$).

That proposition holds because distinguishing $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, for random secret $k_2$ and chosen distinct messages $m_i$, requires breaking the indistinguishability of $F_{k_2}$ or the collision-resistance of the public function $H$. Proof sketch of that: for hypothetical distinct messages $m_i$ allowing to distinguish $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, if there is a collision among the $h_i=H(m_i)$, that exhibits a pair of $h_i$ breaking the collision-resistance of $H$; otherwise, we can distinguish the $F(h_i)$ from random for chosen distinct $h_i$ that we can exhibit from the hypothetized $m_i$ (since $H$ is public), thus breaking the indistinguishability of $F$.


As apparent from the many revisions and convoluted argument surrounding $k_1$, I'm struggling quite a bit on that one, especially when I use the more formal definition of (not-necessarilly-strongly) universal hash function: $H:\mathcal K\times\mathcal M\to\mathcal T$ is a family of universal hash functions when $$\forall(m,m')\in\mathcal M^2,\quad m\ne m'\implies\mathsf{Pr}_{k\in\mathcal K}\Big[H(k,m)=H(k,m')\Big]=\frac1{|\mathcal T|}$$

My reading is that one can't exhibit the counter example asked for the definition of universal hash function in comment, when that's read as stating that $H_{k_1}: m\to H(k_1,m)$ is collision-resistant for fixed $k_1$, including random and public.

That follows from the following proposition, and the remark that turning $k_1$ from public to secret can't harm security.

Proposition: Applying a secure PRF $F_{k_2}: h\mapsto F(k_2,h)$ with random secret constant $k_2$ to the output of a public collision-resistant function $H$ yields a secure MAC (only at worst slightly less secure than the weakest of $F$ and $H$).

That proposition holds because distinguishing $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, for random secret $k_2$ and chosen distinct messages $m_i$, requires breaking the indistinguishability of $F_{k_2}$ or the collision-resistance of the public function $H$. Proof sketch of that: for hypothetical distinct messages $m_i$ allowing to distinguish $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, if there is a collision among the $h_i=H(m_i)$, that exhibits a pair of $h_i$ breaking the collision-resistance of $H$; otherwise, we can distinguish the $F(h_i)$ from random for chosen distinct $h_i$ that we can exhibit from the hypothetized $m_i$ (since $H$ is public), thus breaking the indistinguishability of $F$.


As apparent from the many revisions and convoluted argument surrounding $k_1$, I'm struggling quite a bit on that one, especially when I use the more formal definition of (not-necessarilly-strongly) universal hash function: $H:\mathcal K\times\mathcal M\to\mathcal T$ is a family of universal hash functions when $$\forall(m,m')\in\mathcal M^2,\quad m\ne m'\implies\mathsf{Pr}_{k\in\mathcal K}\Big[H(k,m)=H(k,m')\Big]=\frac1{|\mathcal T|}$$

Polish
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fgrieu
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My reading is that one can't exhibit the counter example asked for the definition of universal hash function in comment, when that's read as stating that $H_{k_1}$ is collision-resistant for fixed $k_1$, including random and public.

That follows from the following proposition, and the remark that turning something$k_1$ from public intoto secret can't harm security.

Proposition: Applying a secure PRF $F_{k_2}$ with random secret constant $k_2$ to the output of a public collision-resistant function $H$ yields a secure MAC (only at worst slightly less secure than the weakest of $F$ and $H$).

That proposition holds because distinguishing $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, for random secret $k_2$ and chosen distinct messages $m_i$, requires breaking the indistinguishability of $F$$F_{k_2}$ or the collision-resistance of the public function $H$. Proof sketch of that: for hypothetical distinct messages $m_i$ allowing to distinguish $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, if there is a collision among the $h_i=H(m_i)$, that exhibits a pair of $h_i$ breaking the collision-resistance of $H$; otherwise, we can distinguish the $F(h_i)$ from random for chosen distinct $h_i$ that we can exhibit from the hypothetized $m_i$ (since $H$ is public), thus breaking the indistinguishability of $F$.


As apparent from the many revisions and convoluted argument surrounding $k_1$, I'm struggling quite a bit on that one, especially when I use the more formal definition of (not-necessarilly-strongly) universal hash function: $H:\mathcal K\times\mathcal M\to\mathcal T$ is a family of universal hash functions when $$\forall(m,m')\in\mathcal M^2,\quad m\ne m'\implies\mathsf{Pr}_{k\in\mathcal K}\Big[H(k,m)=H(k,m')\Big]=\frac1{|\mathcal T|}$$

My reading is that one can't exhibit the counter example asked for the definition of universal hash function in comment, when that's read as stating that $H_{k_1}$ is collision-resistant for fixed $k_1$, including random and public.

That follows from the following proposition, and the remark that turning something public into secret can't harm security.

Proposition: Applying a secure PRF $F_{k_2}$ with random secret constant $k_2$ to the output of a public collision-resistant function $H$ yields a secure MAC (only at worst slightly less secure than the weakest of $F$ and $H$).

That proposition holds because distinguishing $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, for random secret $k_2$ and chosen distinct messages $m_i$, requires breaking the indistinguishability of $F$ or the collision-resistance of the public function $H$. Proof sketch of that: for hypothetical distinct messages $m_i$ allowing to distinguish $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, if there is a collision among the $h_i=H(m_i)$, that exhibits a pair of $h_i$ breaking the collision-resistance of $H$; otherwise, we can distinguish the $F(h_i)$ from random for chosen distinct $h_i$ that we can exhibit from the hypothetized $m_i$ (since $H$ is public), thus breaking the indistinguishability of $F$.


As apparent from the many revisions and convoluted argument surrounding $k_1$, I'm struggling quite a bit on that one, especially when I use the more formal definition of (not-necessarilly-strongly) universal hash function: $H:\mathcal K\times\mathcal M\to\mathcal T$ is a family of universal hash functions when $$\forall(m,m')\in\mathcal M^2,\quad m\ne m'\implies\mathsf{Pr}_{k\in\mathcal K}\Big[H(k,m)=H(k,m')\Big]=\frac1{|\mathcal T|}$$

My reading is that one can't exhibit the counter example asked for the definition of universal hash function in comment, when that's read as stating that $H_{k_1}$ is collision-resistant for fixed $k_1$, including random and public.

That follows from the following proposition, and the remark that turning $k_1$ from public to secret can't harm security.

Proposition: Applying a secure PRF $F_{k_2}$ with random secret constant $k_2$ to the output of a public collision-resistant function $H$ yields a secure MAC (only at worst slightly less secure than the weakest of $F$ and $H$).

That proposition holds because distinguishing $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, for random secret $k_2$ and chosen distinct messages $m_i$, requires breaking the indistinguishability of $F_{k_2}$ or the collision-resistance of the public function $H$. Proof sketch of that: for hypothetical distinct messages $m_i$ allowing to distinguish $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, if there is a collision among the $h_i=H(m_i)$, that exhibits a pair of $h_i$ breaking the collision-resistance of $H$; otherwise, we can distinguish the $F(h_i)$ from random for chosen distinct $h_i$ that we can exhibit from the hypothetized $m_i$ (since $H$ is public), thus breaking the indistinguishability of $F$.


As apparent from the many revisions and convoluted argument surrounding $k_1$, I'm struggling quite a bit on that one, especially when I use the more formal definition of (not-necessarilly-strongly) universal hash function: $H:\mathcal K\times\mathcal M\to\mathcal T$ is a family of universal hash functions when $$\forall(m,m')\in\mathcal M^2,\quad m\ne m'\implies\mathsf{Pr}_{k\in\mathcal K}\Big[H(k,m)=H(k,m')\Big]=\frac1{|\mathcal T|}$$

Polish
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fgrieu
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My reading is that one can't exhibit the counter example asked for the definition of universal hash function in comment, when that's read as stating that $H_{k_1}$ is collision-resistant for fixed $k_1$, including random and public.

That follows from the following proposition, and the remark that turning something public into secret can't harm security.

Proposition: Applying a secure PRF $F_{k_2}$ with random secret constant $k_2$ to the output of a public collision-resistant function $H$ yields a secure MAC (only at worst slightly less secure than the weakest of $F$ and $H$).

And that holds a fortiori if $H$ is $H_{k_1}$ with $k_1$ random and secret (as in the question), given that (per my reading of this comment), $H_{k_1}$ is collision-resistant for a fixed random public $k_1$, and turning something public into secret can't harm security.

TheThat proposition in the butlast paragraph holds holds because distinguishing $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, for random secret $k_2$ and chosen distinct messages $m_i$, requires breaking the indistinguishability of $F$ or the collision-resistance of the public function $H$. Proof sketch of that: for hypothetical distinct messages $m_i$ allowing to distinguish $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, if there is a collision among the $h_i=H(m_i)$, that exhibits a pair of $h_i$ breaking the collision-resistance of $H$; otherwise, we can distinguish the $F(h_i)$ from random for chosen distinct $h_i$ that we can exhibit from the hypothetized $m_i$ (since $H$ is public), thus breaking the indistinguishability of $F$.


As apparent from the many revisions and convoluted argument surrounding $k_1$, I'm struggling quite a bit on that one, especially when I use the more formal definition of (not-necessarilly-strongly) universal hash functionuniversal hash function: $H:\mathcal K\times\mathcal M\to\mathcal T$ is a family of universal hash functions when $$\forall(m,m')\in\mathcal M^2,\quad m\ne m'\implies\mathsf{Pr}_{k\in\mathcal K}\Big[H(k,m)=H(k,m')\Big]=\frac1{|\mathcal T|}$$

My reading is that one can't exhibit the counter example asked.

Applying a secure PRF $F_{k_2}$ with random secret constant $k_2$ to the output of a public collision-resistant function $H$ yields a secure MAC (only at worst slightly less secure than the weakest of $F$ and $H$).

And that holds a fortiori if $H$ is $H_{k_1}$ with $k_1$ random and secret (as in the question), given that (per my reading of this comment), $H_{k_1}$ is collision-resistant for a fixed random public $k_1$, and turning something public into secret can't harm security.

The proposition in the butlast paragraph holds because distinguishing $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, for random secret $k_2$ and chosen distinct messages $m_i$, requires breaking the indistinguishability of $F$ or the collision-resistance of the public function $H$. Proof sketch of that: for hypothetical distinct messages $m_i$ allowing to distinguish $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, if there is a collision among the $h_i=H(m_i)$, that exhibits a pair of $h_i$ breaking the collision-resistance of $H$; otherwise, we can distinguish the $F(h_i)$ from random for chosen distinct $h_i$ that we can exhibit from the hypothetized $m_i$ (since $H$ is public), thus breaking the indistinguishability of $F$.


As apparent from the many revisions and convoluted argument surrounding $k_1$, I'm struggling quite a bit on that one, especially when I use the more formal definition of (not-necessarilly-strongly) universal hash function: $H:\mathcal K\times\mathcal M\to\mathcal T$ is a family of universal hash functions when $$\forall(m,m')\in\mathcal M^2,\quad m\ne m'\implies\mathsf{Pr}_{k\in\mathcal K}\Big[H(k,m)=H(k,m')\Big]=\frac1{|\mathcal T|}$$

My reading is that one can't exhibit the counter example asked for the definition of universal hash function in comment, when that's read as stating that $H_{k_1}$ is collision-resistant for fixed $k_1$, including random and public.

That follows from the following proposition, and the remark that turning something public into secret can't harm security.

Proposition: Applying a secure PRF $F_{k_2}$ with random secret constant $k_2$ to the output of a public collision-resistant function $H$ yields a secure MAC (only at worst slightly less secure than the weakest of $F$ and $H$).

That proposition holds because distinguishing $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, for random secret $k_2$ and chosen distinct messages $m_i$, requires breaking the indistinguishability of $F$ or the collision-resistance of the public function $H$. Proof sketch of that: for hypothetical distinct messages $m_i$ allowing to distinguish $F_{k_2}(H(m_i))$ from random, if there is a collision among the $h_i=H(m_i)$, that exhibits a pair of $h_i$ breaking the collision-resistance of $H$; otherwise, we can distinguish the $F(h_i)$ from random for chosen distinct $h_i$ that we can exhibit from the hypothetized $m_i$ (since $H$ is public), thus breaking the indistinguishability of $F$.


As apparent from the many revisions and convoluted argument surrounding $k_1$, I'm struggling quite a bit on that one, especially when I use the more formal definition of (not-necessarilly-strongly) universal hash function: $H:\mathcal K\times\mathcal M\to\mathcal T$ is a family of universal hash functions when $$\forall(m,m')\in\mathcal M^2,\quad m\ne m'\implies\mathsf{Pr}_{k\in\mathcal K}\Big[H(k,m)=H(k,m')\Big]=\frac1{|\mathcal T|}$$

Confess I'm a bit lost
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fgrieu
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fgrieu
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Straighten it; hopefully!
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Polish
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More detailed proof sketch.
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fgrieu
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Polish
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fgrieu
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fgrieu
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