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My question concerns the elliptic curve $E$ over a prime field $\mathbb F_p$. To the best of my understanding, ECDSA requires a Generator point $G$ of prime order $n$, and the $r$ and $s$ values of the signature must be within the range $[1,n-1]$. The concept of ECDSA is to show a person that one is in possession of a secret $k$ s.t. $kG = K$, without (obviously) revealing $k$.

However, suppose that you are aware of public key $K$ and are looking to do a tweak of $K$. Let $t$ be the tweaking factor, and so $tK = K'$. If you then wanted to prove that you are in possession of $t$, how would you do that?

An immediate thought (which I am confident will not work) is to use ECDSA with $K$ as the generator point. However, it might be the case that $K$ is of a very small order $n$ which may not be prime.

If someone can shed light on how to prove that one is in possession of secret $t$, I would be very happy. Also, the verifying party is in possession of both $k, K$, the secret key and public key pair.

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However, suppose that you are aware of public key $K$ and are looking to do a tweak of $K$. Let $t$ be the tweaking factor, and so $tK=K'$. If you then wanted to prove that you are in possession of $t$, how would you do that?

The obvious way to do this is a Schnorr proof of knowledge, which does precisely what you're looking for; given a public $K, tK$, it demonstrates that you know $t$. Wikipedia lists the interactive version; it can be made noninteractive by having the prover generate $c$ based on a hash of the commitment $t$ (and possibly other stuff if you need to bind the proof to something).

An immediate thought (which I am confident will not work) is to use ECDSA with $K$ as the generator point. However, it might be the case that $K$ is of a very small order $n$ which may not be prime.

That would also work (which isn't that surprising; ECDSA is essentially based on Schnorr, tweaked enough to avoid patents that have since expired); it's kludgier, however it might be preferable if you just happen to have an ECDSA implementation just lying around. If $K$ does have small factors, you might need to work around it (as some values might not be invertable), however that wouldn't appear to be a major issue.

And, if $K$ is a very small order, then deriving $t$ would be easy, no matter what proof-of-knowledge method you use (and so there's little point in the problem). In any case, we almost always use elliptic curves where the order of the curve is $hq$, where $h$ is a small value (the most common values are 1 and 8), and $q$ is a large prime - except for a handful of points (actually, a total of $h$ points), all points have a large order (at least $q$).

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  • $\begingroup$ Ok, wow. Thank you for the detailed response. Could you expand a bit more on the issues with using ECDSA on public keys (ECC points) that have small factors? Would it be easy to check if a particular public key is ideal for this proof? In the next paragraph you mention that typically points on a curve have an order of $q$ which is a large prime, and only $h$ points don't. Is it trivial to check if a point is one of these $h$ points? $\endgroup$ – A M Feb 26 at 21:23
  • $\begingroup$ @AM: well, the problem with ECDSA really is with curves of composite order; to sign, we select a random $k$ and then compute $k^{-1}$ modulo the curve order. If the curve order has small factors and $k$ just happens to be a multiple of one of those small factors, then there won't be any such $k^{-1}$ - we typically avoid such issues by using ECDSA only with curves with a prime order. As for checking if a point $P$ happens to be one of the $h$ points with small order, that's easy - compute $hP$ and check if that's the point at infinity... $\endgroup$ – poncho Feb 26 at 23:30
  • $\begingroup$ Thank you @poncho! $\endgroup$ – A M Feb 27 at 0:00
  • $\begingroup$ Also, I searched online to check the $h$ value for the elliptic curve I am working with and I found $h = 1$, which likely suggests that there is only one point on the curve which is of a small group. My intuition tells me that the point is the point at infinity, but either way it doesn't matter since the likelihood that $K$ is that point is very low. $\endgroup$ – A M Feb 27 at 19:42
  • $\begingroup$ It is, in fact, the point at infinity... $\endgroup$ – poncho Feb 27 at 20:13

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